Saturday, 10 January, 2009

1. By Savannah. Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @03:15pm:

   This brings a question to mind. How would this be different, for instance, from Jesse Jackson and those like him, other than the size of the business's being shaken down, and the fact it's a wheel chair rather than skin color?
2. By Evil Klown. Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @03:26pm:

   How dare you question blacks or disabled peeps?
   
   Businesses have plenty of money. They can just take it out of their windfall profits. I am so sick of those greedy business owners.
3. By John Wilson. Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @03:37pm:

   Jerk. Definitely.
4. By . Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @03:52pm:

   ... a lawsuit over a condiments counter that was half an inch too high.
   
   I have a disability and sometimes I find that businesses are not very cognizant of some of the problems disabled people might have. However, quibbling over a half inch discrepancy in the height of a condiment shelf is taking it too far. The only people who would benefit from this type of lawsuit are the lawyers.
   
   With farts being a topic of the day, let me add that people who have to use wheelchairs are very attuned as to to how flatulent many people are in public.
5. By . Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @04:08pm:

   The only people who would benefit from this type of lawsuit are the lawyers.

   
   Not true. The threat of a lawsuit is how he makes his money: "Give me $1,000 and I won't sue." The business owners know that it would cost a lot more than that to defend themselves, so most of them just pay up.
6. By major_danny. Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @04:12pm:

   People openly mocked Barack Obama for being a community activist, implying he had no other qualifications for office. Those attacks were spurious in my opinion.
   
   I mention because this Murdy appears to be the exact opposite of a “community activist.” He's more like a parasite, seeking a financial windfall for perceived (and fabricated) injustices. He could seek to make the world better for disabled people by working with business owners, but chooses instead to enrich himself.
   
   Analogies made to Jesse Jackson and other poverty pimps are totally accurate and totally fair. Jerks like Murdy and Jackson do more harm to left causes than any 'obstructionist' on the right could ever be.
7. By wally the duck. Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @04:22pm:

   For starters, the ADA does not set any 'standards' for buildings or facilities. It is a civil rights law that grew, ultimately, out of returning veterans acts after WWI.
   
   Actual standards are set by the Post Office, the military, transportation businesses and HUD for things over which they have jurisdiction. There is an "Access Board" that has promulgated ADAAG rules which are now adopted, voluntarily, by those four groups for that purpose - but they may be modified if each governing agency deems necessary.
   
   There is no nationwide mandate or code or set of rules for what governs building compliance with the ADA. Some states have building codes that have accessibility provisions. Many states now adopt the IBC code which has accessibility provisions - and these are based on ANSI A117.1. ANSI is a non-governmental agency that developed those site, building and facility standards long before there was an 'Access Board'.
   
   If I type more I'll go up to the 1000 letter limit. Bye.
8. By Curtis. Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @04:24pm:

   The business owners know that it would cost a lot more than that to defend themselves, so most of them just pay up.

   
   
   Or you could avoid having to defend yourself by paying attention to ADA regulations when you're starting a business. It is possible to do. Also, ADA regs are NOT all encompassing -- for instance, buildings built prior to the ADA do not have to be structurally modified to comply.
   
   If you want to read about some lawsuit shakedowns, Google patent infringement trolls & Eastern District, Texas
   .
   
   You knew I'd rise to the bait, didn't you, J-Walk?
9. By Curtis. Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @04:26pm:

   Heh, heh, heh... I was typing at the same time as wtd. You put that very well, wally.
10. By Lou Smorals. Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @04:27pm:

    Is the problem really these disabled, disgruntled few? I see the US legal system as more the issue.
    
    More power to 'em, I say. Maybe it will create pressure to fix a busted system. 50% of all lawyers IN THE WORLD practice in the USA.
11. By wally the duck. Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @05:05pm:

    Curtis,
    I deal with some of this a lot - almost daily - as applied to housing. I agree with your point: the business owner, or whomever, should pay attention to the regulations and just avoid the problems. The guy in the article is looking at building code issues, but the ADA really is more equal opportunity stuff - equal hiring, equal pay, equal treatment. People should be doing those things anyway, law or not.
12. By . Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @05:55pm:

    This guy is a sleaze-ball, whether he's in a wheelchair or not, but the even bigger sleaze-ball, IMHO, is the attorney who advertises how he can make the poor disabled person rich. He's the brother of the lawyer who attracts the creepy people who set up staged minor auto accidents - and collect pretty little lump sum payments in insurance settlements.
    
    If all these cases had to go to court rather than be "settled" out of court, things would go a different direction; as it is, it's a good way to make money.
    
    There's an old-fashioned concept called "shame" - neither the lawyer nor the "victim" seem to be familiar with it - but perhaps another old-fashioned concept - karma - will take care of these losers.
13. By . Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @06:08pm:

    My Karma ran over my Dogma
    
    What this guy really needs is a flight of stairs and a visit from the ghost of Richard Widmark.
14. By . Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @06:24pm:

    If all these cases had to go to court rather than be "settled" out of court, things would go a different direction; as it is, it's a good way to make money.

    
    
    See this.
    
    Del Taco took it to court, and spent $100,000 defending themselves. They won, but (so far) they have to pay their own legal expenses.
15. By John Wilson. Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @07:57pm:

    I like this idea
    http://bitsandpieces.us/2009/01/06/40-step-program/
    
    Seriously...
    I agree that people and businesses should make every effort to accomodate the disabled but when they do stuff like this, it's pushing the limits too far.
    
    I once worked out of a garage that AT&T leased. We renovated it. By law, we were required to put in a handicapped bathroom. We were the only people working out of the garage and our job was to drive trucks, climb up poles and down manholes. DOH!!!
    
    A few years ago the county repaved the roads and replaced the curbs around my property. I live on a corner property with no sidewalks. Fought like heck but lost so now I have a concrete handicap ramp on the corner so that someone in a wheelchair can easily roll up the ramp and get mired in my lawn. DOH!!
    
    This particular person in the article is a leech on society and sours others perceptions to disabled people.
16. By John Wilson. Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @08:06pm:

    And another thing.......
    Remembered from my traveling days.
    Atlanta, Hartsfield Airport, Avis Car Rental.
    The busses that pick up the passengers to/from the terminal to take them to their rental cars were wheelchair equipped!!
    
    Forget the fact that I ultimately had to pay more for my rental so that Avis could keep specially equipped cars on hand for the disabled but they had to add these specially equipped busses too?!?!?!
    
    I'm certain that it would have been cheaper for Avis (and me, ultimately) for the disabled person to call Avis and have them personally picked up and taken to the terminal instead of having to equip all of the busses to handle the few that might have needed it.
    
    And...in all my travels (every week for 3 years), I never once saw a wheelchair bound person rent a car.
17. By Willylumplump. Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @08:13pm:

    I noticed your banner was a good 3/4 inches out of ADA compliance. Gimme $1000!
18. By John Wilson. Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @08:52pm:

    It all comes down to a few a-hoes (this guy being one of them) that ruin the perception of the "group" by shoving their beliefs in my face.
    
    I wasn't born a racist but when I see the likes of Jesse and the reverend Al (why didn't that guy use something better than a butter knife??) and the fact that they can have a Black Watch, a Black Miss America, the NAACP, etc., I'm now a racist.
    I wasn't born to hate gays/lesbians either but when they want their own parades, want to march overtly in the St. Patty's day parade, want special rights, etc., I changed my mind about them. Now?? They can all go F themselves (sorry, that is what they do anyway).
    Atheists??? (of which I'm one). Who gives a damn if it says "In God we Trust" on my money. If I hand it to someone and he gives me what I paid for, who gives a damn?
    I don't hate the disabled (yet) but if I had a business and I ran into a guy like this, he would definitely change my perception of the whole.
19. By Steve Martin. Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @09:02pm:

    I saw this reported on tv (CNN, I think).
    
    The guy's definitely a jerk!
20. By wally the duck. Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @09:27pm:

    "We were the only people working out of the garage and our job was to drive trucks.."
    
    I remember designing an ofice/shop remodel for a small tool, die and machining company a few years ago. The offices were upstairs and the company president defended that by pointing out that all his employees had to be fully able-bodied to run the machines, so walking up to his office should be no problem for them. That worked OK until he broke his leg in an accident and couldn't get to his own office.
21. By . Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @10:21pm:

    By John Wilson:
    I'm certain that it would have been cheaper for Avis (and me, ultimately) for the disabled person to call Avis and have them personally picked up and taken to the terminal instead of having to equip all of the buses to handle the few that might have needed it.
    
    It probably would be cheapest if Avis simply had an employee drive the car over to the rental office when a disabled person rented it.
22. By Curtis. Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @10:38pm:

    I am amazed that when people are presented with facts, experience and professional knowledge, they ignore them to pontificate about their own snap judgments. A lot of laws have people who finagle them to make ill-gotten gains, that doesn't mean those laws aren't needed nonetheless. I have little sympathy for businesses that don't figure out what they must comply with before they open their doors.
    
    Restaurants are constantly hampered by health regulations; think we should let 'em slide on that? Come on most of 'em are just small businesses trying to stay afloat.
23. By . Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @10:56pm:

    I'm disabled, and I pretty much agree with Curtis on this.
24. By wok. Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @11:09pm:

    I think it's unfair that lights in some buildings are harder on very fairskinned people, or albinos. I don't have this problem, but I don't understand why every building doesn't accomodate, let's just go ahead and use albinos as an example. Every business should have specific things set up just for them. Also, every shoe should be made in every size for every person.
    
    I do not know where I'm going with this. I don't have a point to make. Some disabled chicks are hot.
25. By Curtis. Comment posted 10-Jan-2009 @11:31pm:

    "Special" Ed Roberts. Before "Special" Ed's activism people like himself spent their short lives confined to iron lungs.
26. By Evil Klown. Comment posted 11-Jan-2009 @04:58am:

    Del Taco took it to court, and spent $100,000 defending themselves. They won, but (so far) they have to pay their own legal expenses.

    
    
    And, in the end, the customers pay for the costs of the lawsuit. Just as the customers pay for ALL the lawsuits and legal harrassment brought by "activists."
    
    I think about every third commercial I see on TV is some lawyer telling you to call him if you've ever taken so & so drug. Those and the IRS lawyers.
27. By wally the duck. Comment posted 11-Jan-2009 @09:42am:

    Didn't both sides have legal expenses?
28. By . Comment posted 11-Jan-2009 @03:56pm:

    I too am disabled; I'm not in a wheelchair yet, but I use a walker to carry my oxygen around and to lean on, which keeps back pain from compression fractures tolerable. Once in awhile it's very difficult and very often it's clumsy and inconvenient. I went to the downtown Post Office a couple of months ago and had my choice of climbing six stairs up or going through a revolving door - with the walker - and then up three stairs. That made me angry. The security guys were nowhere near the doors - they were sitting around chatting upstairs by the service windows. When I asked, I was told there was a disabled entrance on the other side of the building; I went by there later and there was no sign, no indication of a public entrance there at all.
    
    On the other hand, the sidewalks in this town are horrible, with big cracks and holes everywhere, and the street crossings are full of potholes; those are an inconvenience to everyone and I figure I just have to deal with it.
29. By . Comment posted 11-Jan-2009 @04:03pm:

    On the rare occasions when I go to a mall, I can't imagine how anyone in a wheelchair can get through the clothing stores there; the clothes racks are so close together I almost can't get through with the walker. And the checkout is very often at my chin level (I'm 4'11"), so I know someone in a wheelchair can't see over it - but I have seen the clerks run back and forth around the counter to take care of a person in a wheelchair.
    
    And I think that's my point: There are a lot of places that are awkward and inconvenient for the disabled, but almost without fail, people step up and help out and it all works out just fine. I think the man and his lawyer who are getting rich this way - at the expense of small business owners and others who can't afford it - is just a creep who's in it for the money.
    
    The world isn't always convenient for anyone and it's way out of line to expect it to be. We need to learn to deal with it and squawk only when it's reasonable.
30. By Curtis. Comment posted 11-Jan-2009 @10:06pm:

    The world isn't always convenient for anyone and it's way out of line to expect it to be. We need to learn to deal with it and squawk only when it's reasonable.

    
    
    With all due respect, I think you are wrong. I know you had a sister with a disability and that you have to live now with your physical differences, but the ADA is necessary for many people, especially those who are disabled from birth.
    
    

    When I asked, I was told there was a disabled entrance on the other side of the building; I went by there later and there was no sign, no indication of a public entrance there at all.

    
    
    That was not in compliance with the ADA and should have clear signage.
31. By . Comment posted 12-Jan-2009 @12:11am:

    Yes, I know, and one of these days when the weather is better I'll go tell them so. But I'm not going to sue them, either.
    
    I'm thinking about one of the most common triggers of epileptic seizures - flashing or blinking lights; should there be no flashing lights allowed anywhere?
    
    What is the 1/2-inch problem with the counter height about? A suitable counter height would vary a great deal depending on whether the wheelchair-bound person is a child, a 5' tall person, or a 6' tall person.
    
    I had a friend many years ago whose son was severely autistic and anything that went round and round fascinated him. One day they were in a Baskin-Robbins for ice cream when Daryl spotted the ceiling fan and, moving very quickly, he managed to jump up onto the ice-cream cooler and grab the fan blade, slicing his hands to smithereens and throwing blood all over the store. Should the store be sued for having a ceiling fan?
    
    Is one disability more important than another?
32. By . Comment posted 12-Jan-2009 @12:23am:

    How can we make every place safe for the blind, the deaf, the seizure-prone, those in wheelchairs, those who are mentally ill and dealing with all those variables, those with severe tremors or the remnants of stroke paralysis, those on crutches, etc.
    
    I appreciate the ADA very much. Thanks to the efforts of many, life is much easier for all disabled now than it used to be. I just think people also have to accept their own limits and stop expecting the entire universe to stop and restart under their own terms; instead, if there's a problem that can be solved, solve it - or try; if not, go someplace else.
    
    I've found that people are kind and helpful and I can always count on someone nearby to help me out of a jam; very often others offer their help without any indication that I need it. A few weeks ago a young man with baggy pants covered with chains and more metal in his face than I have in my house just reached down and lifted my walker into the bus, then went on his way.
33. By . Comment posted 12-Jan-2009 @12:38am:

    John Wilson, I think you look for something to tick you off and when you find it, you delight in the hate and frolic in it.
    
    I would consider it a waste of an existence if I were so miserably unhappy and hateful toward anything and everything that irks me, whether it has anything personally to do with me or not. Honestly - do gay parades impact you seriously and personally? Not likely.
    
    Your life is going by while you sit and stew over all the stuff that ticks you off; you might want to think about that. Are you really happy being so unhappy?
34. By Curtis. Comment posted 12-Jan-2009 @01:01am:

    How can we make every place safe...

    
    
    The ADA doesn't attempt to do that. You are misunderstanding it.
    
    

    I'm thinking about one of the most common triggers of epileptic seizures - flashing or blinking lights; should there be no flashing lights allowed anywhere?
    

    
    
    That's a straw man argument, but I'll respond -- it is quite reasonable for warnings to be posted on video games and other electronic devices so people with seizure disorders and their families can avoid them.
    
    

    Is one disability more important than another?

    
    
    Some are more disabling than others.
35. By John Wilson. Comment posted 12-Jan-2009 @02:06pm:

    Spokane Mary I'm far from being miserably unhappy and hateful. It does however tick me off to see people like the one in the article doing their best to ruin the perception of the group (disabled) especially for their own personal benefit.
    
    As for the gays and their parade inclusions????
    I remember taking my own kids to the St. Pat's Parades.
    Was a lot of fun.
    
    Now how do I do the same with my grandkids and explain to them about that part of the parade where men are openly kissing other men, dressing in womens clothes, etc.?
    
    They already have their own parade. I obviously don't go.
    Why do they have to flaunt their beliefs in another parade that has nothing to do with them?
36. By . Comment posted 12-Jan-2009 @04:17pm:

    Well, maybe because they're people with the same right to exist and right to parade that heterosexual people have? Maybe you should explain to your children that there are some men who love other men and some women who love other women in the same way that you and your wife love each other; they're called "gay" people. It looks a bit odd to see them kissing each other, but it's really no big deal. The kids will deal with it just fine. In fact, the odds are good that someone in their school class has a gay parent, possibly with a partner, and the kids pay no attention to it; they may know more about gay people than you do.
    
    No, I'm not gay.
    
    As for the men wearing women's clothes, do you have a problem with a woman in the parade wearing blue jeans and cowboy boots?
37. By John Wilson. Comment posted 12-Jan-2009 @08:06pm:

    Spokane Mary Very well written and I agree with a lot of what you say. They do have the same right to parade that heterosexuals do. As a matter of fact, they have their own parade. And yes, my grandkids just might know more about gay people than I do.
    
    My point is that if I want to take my grandkids to anything other than a gay parade I shouldn't have to be put in the position to have to explain something like this:
    
    
38. By . Comment posted 12-Jan-2009 @09:36pm:

    John Wilson, was that photo taken in a family-oriented parade or in a gay parade?
39. By Curtis. Comment posted 13-Jan-2009 @08:55am:

    I couldn't find it using Tin Eye reverse image search, but you are exactly right, SM, that's no St. Patrick's Day Parade photo.
    
    John Wilson, come on. Just embrace your inner homophobe and stop using "the children" as an excuse.
40. By . Comment posted 13-Jan-2009 @10:02am:

    We must all acquiesce to the needs of a few, the monetary cost mean nothing as long as no one is inconvenienced. The millions of unused parking spaces, the half inch in salad bar height, the weight of a door closure, or the other hundreds of inane guidelines that change from county to county. It all translates to more money, from the contractor in the field installing the appliances to the consumer paying more for the products. Self reliance takes a back seat to complaining and the "I'm perfect and its not my fault attitude". Someone must pay the piper, and it is all of us. I am handicapped and I understand that life is not fair. My parents taught me to make my own way in life and not burden other people, but it seems that many others wish a free ride on the backs of hard working people like my parents.
41. By Curtis. Comment posted 13-Jan-2009 @10:51am:

    My parents taught me to make my own way in life

    
    
    Lucky you, Mike, born with circumstances that left you capable, but unfortunately (at least so it seems) also a scold. Many, many Americans do not have the advantages you had with parents who had the fortitude, patience, skill and foresight to raise you for independence. Please try not to judge other people whose disabilities are more severe or whose families can't give them the kind of rearing you had.
    
    I'll grant that this guy may be a shmuck, but that doesn't negate the importance of the ADA.
42. By John Wilson. Comment posted 13-Jan-2009 @08:24pm:

    SM No. The picture wasn't taken from a family parade. Of course if there weren't strict rules on the content of family parades though, it certainly could (would) be.
    
    Curtis inner???
    hahahahahahaha
43. By . Comment posted 14-Jan-2009 @12:08am:

    Jeez, John Wilson, let me get this straight; first, in #35 you bemoan the fact that nowadays if you take your grandchildren to a St. Pat's Day parade, you may wind up explaining things like "men kissing other men" etc., then you send a photo of (presumably) a bunch of gay men in a parade, then, when asked, you admit the photo came from a GAY parade, not a family-oriented parade, which means that the photo does NOT represent anything your grandchildren might be exposed to unless they were watching a gay parade, and then you wind up with the lame, "well, it could happen ..."
    
    You might want to wait until things do happen before you react to them to the point where you worry about taking your grandchildren to a St. Pat's Day parade.
    
    You might also want to avoid perusing off-color photo sites if you want to keep such images out of your mind.
44. By Kara. Comment posted 15-Jan-2009 @12:38pm:

    Wally the Duck-FYI Building standards of accessibility are clearly written in Title II of ADA. These are open and available to everyone (including even the smallest of business owners). Your history of ADA is slightly skewed also (the connection to WWII) but I'll leave that for another day!
    ADA has been in place for nearly TWENTY years. How long do we have to wait to enjoy the same access able-bodied citizens demand with no recourse.
    
    John Wilson-I'm always amused by the argument, "I offer/own this entirely inaccessible service/business, and I don't know why I'd comply to ADA because I've never had a disabled customer." No kidding!?! We don't use services we can't access. Another FYI: I'm a wheelchair user and have rented a car dozens of times. Sorry you didn't witness it to validate our need.
45. By . Comment posted 22-Jan-2009 @07:36pm:

    Well Disney better hope he doesn't visit their California Adventure. I am a post polio patient and us a cane. When I tried to use my Handicapped pass, from Disneyland across the walkway, I was told that I could NOT go to the front of the line. They told me the are 100% ADA compliant because they have wheel chair access and I could RENT a wheel chair and wait in line in a wheel chair. The then said that I should know that they are a walking and standing park! They really said that to me and my travel agent!

Original content © 2010, John Walkenbach