Tuesday, 03 November, 2009

1. By . Comment posted 03-Nov-2009 @06:12pm:

   I'd like to bite her.
2. By . Comment posted 03-Nov-2009 @06:17pm:

   Good dog.
3. By . Comment posted 03-Nov-2009 @06:23pm:

   Until I found Snarly I used to waste hours standing in line.
4. By Don Coyote. Comment posted 03-Nov-2009 @06:30pm:

   'Multiple deep gashes' is a bit histrionic. She probably had three or four puncture wounds and a bit of dog slobber.
   
   Together we joyfully affirmed my present wholeness as God's unblemished and complete expression, and I felt no pain.
   
   I know what she means. I felt that way after my first and only prostate exam.
5. By Jim Birch. Comment posted 03-Nov-2009 @06:42pm:

   The dog pictured probably belongs to a Christian.
6. By Cujo. Comment posted 03-Nov-2009 @07:00pm:

   That is not just a random snarling dog. It is an angry canine demon from hell.
7. By . Comment posted 03-Nov-2009 @07:03pm:

   My father had a sister who was nearly 25 years older than him, and she and her husband were very devout Christian Science believers.
   
   My dad used to ask her if she had been run over by a bus would she ask that the ambulance to take her to the Emergency Room or to the Christian Science Reading Room. She was not amused.
   
   (Oh yeah, she nearly made it to 90 and he only got to 81, so take that for what it's worth.)
8. By Klaus. Comment posted 03-Nov-2009 @07:17pm:

   I sure hope that the Vet was a Christian Science Vet. Just to keep things in order...
9. By Ron. Comment posted 03-Nov-2009 @10:15pm:

   This incident tells absolutely nothing about Christian Science... at best it's grossly misleading.
10. By . Comment posted 03-Nov-2009 @10:23pm:

    I read the whole story. The vet cleaned and bandaged the wound using antibacterial and possibly even antibiotic products. She recieved immediate high-quality first aid from a trained professional. That was probably all the care she needed even though the vet recommended she have a medical doctor examine the wound.
    
    The vet provided all the care she needed. The vet healed the wound. With most animal bites quickly cleaning and bandaging the wound is all it takes unless there is some kind of deep tissue injury. This is why housecat bites are so dangerous. Cats have very strong jaws. They often wound more deeply than seems apparent, sometimes penetrating into bone. Cats also have very nasty bacteria in their saliva. Cat saliva itself has immune system secretions that can provoke a nasty immune response.
    
    I love cats.
11. By Don Coyote. Comment posted 03-Nov-2009 @10:36pm:

    "This incident tells absolutely nothing about Christian Science... at best it's grossly misleading."
    
    OK, I did a little research on Christian Science but pulled up short when I read about "Christian Science bears..." I'm sure that if bears can be trained to dance in circuses then Christian Science can't be that hard for them to get the hang of, Ron.
    
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Science
12. By Word Pecker. Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @03:41am:

    Note: The dog shown here is just a random snarling dog. It's not the dog who (please refer to a dog by using "which" next time) bit Laurel Smith.
    
    Incidentally, "WHO" is reserved to refer to human being, Please.
13. By Evil Klown. Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @05:10am:

    I felt that way after my first and only prostate exam.

    
    Ha ha -- very funny, Don Coyote.
14. By RikS. Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @05:20am:

    Any up and coming poet knows you can't replace who with which in that sentence. "That" would be the choice but I like who better.
15. By AZJohnB. Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @06:28am:

    So, finish the story. How is he dog and did the dog have to pray?
16. By jmnorthcutt. Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @06:40am:

    Devil, get out!!
17. By Inti. Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @07:38am:

    Does it also work for Komodo dragon bites?
18. By JakeB. Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @07:51am:

    Christian Scientists don’t say that medicine doesn’t work; they just believe that prayer is the better option for them. You will also note that unlike many other religions they don’t try to impose there will on others or even actively recruit. They make there beliefs available to others through writing, and hope that others choose to join.
    And before you say "but what about the children", just remember that the horror stories represent an extremely small minority of Christian Scientists.
    
    I was raised as a C.S., my mother still is one. It wasn’t right for me, but as far as religious organaniztions go I think it’s a pretty good one.
19. By . Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @08:12am:

    as far as religious organaniztions go I think it’s a pretty good one.

    
    When I read something like this, it's difficult to agree with your assessment, JakeB.
    
    As a Christian Science Practitioner, I offer Christian Science treatment that approaches healing of a specific problem or problems from a purely metaphysical and spiritual standpoint; therefore, this system cannot be mixed with any other system which approaches healing from a physical and material standpoint, for example, medical, chiropractic, psychiatric, psychological, hypnotic, semi-metaphysical, homeopathic, holistic, etc.
    
    This "practitioner" sounds downright dangerous.
20. By gdm IV. Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @10:03am:

    J-Walk, the practitioner you linked obviously isn't a real Christian Scientist. You know how this works.
21. By JakeB. Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @11:27am:

    J-walk, I didn’t mean to say that I necessarily agreed with all of their beliefs.
    I was more trying to point out that they don’t force their views on other, don’t get involved in politics, are accepting of other organizations, don’t rob there members blind, accept gays...
    
    As far as a Practitioner goes look at what he is saying this way. If a Dr. ever told you that both radiation and surgery are treatment options but you can’t do them at the same time, and he only administers one of them. You wouldn’t consider him a quack, because one treatment would be detrimental to the other, and he just administers.
    The Practitioner is just saying that when he treats you with faith based healing; you really need to buy into it for it to work. He doesn’t say that you can’t get other treatments; just that what he is offering won’t work at the same time.
    I know you think faith based healing is crock, but that is a different argument
22. By . Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @11:42am:

    I know you think faith based healing is crock, but that is a different argument

    
    It's actually the same argument. In order to accept what you're saying about CS, I must accept that what they do has some validity. It doesn't. The entire organization is based around a huge lie.
23. By gdm IV. Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @01:25pm:

    you really need to buy into it for it to work...you think faith based healing is crock, but that is a different argument

    
    The cognitive dissonance is working its magic.
24. By . Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @02:33pm:

    I've relied on CS all my life and have had lots of healings because of it, and so have many of my friends and family. I have never used medicine, but Christian Scientists are free to do that if they wish. I have CS friends who have chosen medical treatment, and they were not criticized or judged in any way as a result of that choice. Maybe the dog bite healing didn't impress you, but how about the woman who had a growth on her face for 10 years and was healed? Or the person who was healed of a diagnosed case of swine flu? There are thousands of cases like these, things like broken bones and cancer. I know these people, and they don't make these things up, and I've had too many healings of my own not to believe that CS prayer is effective. I'm not saying it's for everyone, only that it works for me and lots of people I know.
25. By . Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @03:13pm:

    Anecdotes don't impress me, JayR. Can you direct me to some independent studies that demonstrates the effectiveness of Christian Science?
26. By . Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @04:08pm:

    That is certainly a fair question, J-Walk. I'll see if I can find something for you. Quite honestly I've never looked for one because I've never needed it.
    
    I understand that someone might be skeptical of healings that are in the CS church's own publications, but I've always believed them to be true because some of them are written by people I know, and I've had experiences of my own. I'll see what I can find from a more independent source.
27. By . Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @04:32pm:

    Will the CS healing method work for amputees?
28. By . Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @04:47pm:

    If Christian Science were truly an effective way of healing, people would be flocking to that religion. Rather, the opposite is happening. I'm pretty sure that CS is dying out much faster than most other religions.
29. By Christopher. Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @04:56pm:

    The Founder of CS has a live telephone line in Her crypt so she can summon someone when she comes back to Life.
    
    It's in Boston - or right outside of. Mount Auburn Cemetary I think.
30. By gdm IV. Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @07:44pm:

    I often think commenters like JayR are trolls just stringing us along for fun. Honestly, how could anyone possibly believe that this stuff works? As decibalcat points out, why doesn't it heal amputees**? If it worked, why wouldn't there be multitudes of documented cases?
    
    **JayR, do you understand the implications of the amputee question?
31. By . Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @08:18pm:

    gdm IV,
    
    I asked the question partly because of the "amputee question" and partly because I really am an amputee.
32. By gdm IV. Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @09:24pm:

    I didn't know that, decibalcat. The question is a great one, and as you know it's used quite liberally by atheists. I hope it's never framed in a way that you find offensive or hurtful.
33. By gdm IV. Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @09:28pm:

    Good grief, that's twice now that I've misspelled your name decibelcat. Many apologies!
34. By Michael. Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @09:44pm:

    The study made by the Harvard Medical School some years showed clearly that some denominations including Christian Science do use a prayer for healing and exhibited some good results. The study mentioned it was a good thing to continue a research on that subject of spiritual healing as it was shown that religious people in their spiritual sense recover much better than others. Anyway regarding a question of "amputee" I can recall when my dad was around 90 he was by pass surgery on his leg.After his discharging from the hospital he had an infection along his stitches and lots of puss was there. Any way while "he was jumping on his bed" from the high temperature for nearly a week or so, his local doctor and nurse advised him to go again to the hospital otherwise his leg may be amputated or he may die. Though I was praying for some days before but it was my wife's scientific prayer which saved him life.Next morning his leg was not infected swollen,but normal. The healing was obvious.
35. By . Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @10:04pm:

    Though I was praying for some days before but it was my wife's scientific prayer which saved him life.

    
    How do you know that? Maybe one of the nurses in the hospital prayed for him. Is there a scorecard or something you guys use?
    
    Have you ever tried praying to Zeus? I guarantee that it would have exactly the same result.
36. By mchael. Comment posted 04-Nov-2009 @11:25pm:

    Some people would like even Zeus help them. In this case the only clearer understanding of man's divine nature and God's omnipotent power brought the harmonious result that even doctor said, "I do not know what you did but continue doing that way". You can believe or not but that was true and the doctor was absolutely amazed.
37. By gdm IV. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @12:46am:

    Obviously Michael is both ignorant and drunk.
38. By . Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @08:09am:

    You can believe or not but that was true and the doctor was absolutely amazed.

    
    Keep those anecdotes coming. Apparently, that's the only evidence anyone has that Christian Science works.
    
    How about just one article from a credible and objective source that demonstrates prayer can heal?
39. By Inti. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @11:50am:

    Praise God for inventing the placebo effect.
40. By . Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @07:48pm:

    OK, didn't come across anything specifically about CS, but here's an article from WebMD, "Can Prayer Heal?": http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/can-prayer-heal
    
    This is a quote from Mitchell Krucoff, MD, a cardiovascular specialist at Duke University School of Medicine:
    "[Today,] we're seeing systematic investigations -- clinical research -- as well as position statements from professional societies supporting this research, federal subsidies from the NIH, funding from Congress," he tells WebMD. "All of these studies, all the reports, are remarkably consistent in suggesting the potential measurable health benefit associated with prayer or spiritual interventions."
    
    They also refer to a book by Harold Koenig, MD, also from Duke University, that documents 1200 studies showing how health is affected by prayer: Handbook of Religion and Health.
41. By . Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @07:57pm:

    Well done, JayR; I'm not into Christian Science, but I am into the idea that there's much we don't know - much that not even brilliant atheists know - and we're much too quick to reject things we don't understand.
    
    Like the eyes, the mind sees more when it's open.
42. By . Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @08:01pm:

    And you might want to read the follow-up regarding Krucoff, JayR:
    
    http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/05-09-02
    
    It would be great if humans could say a few magic words, and it would affect things. But it doesn't work that way, even if your REALLY REALLY want it to.
    
    Just a bunch of wishful thinkers grabbing at straws. Even straws that don't exist.
43. By gdm IV. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @08:24pm:

    but I am into the idea that there's much we don't know - much that not even brilliant atheists know - and we're much too quick to reject things we don't understand.

    
    Please provide a list of prominent atheists who claim to know everything.
44. By gdm IV. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @08:35pm:

    They also refer to a book by Harold Koenig, MD, also from Duke University, that documents 1200 studies showing how health is affected by prayer: Handbook of Religion and Health.

    
    
    Interesting review of that book here:
    http://atheism.about.com/od/bookreviews/fr/HandbkRelHealth.htm
45. By . Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @09:11pm:

    Please provide a list of prominent atheists who claim to know everything.

    
    I never said they claim to know everything, gdm IV; what I said is that there is much that not even brilliant atheists know.
    
    Significant difference.
46. By gdm IV. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @10:10pm:

    I never said they claim to know everything, gdm IV; what I said is that there is much that not even brilliant atheists know.

    
    Ah, irrational and childish. Lovely.
47. By . Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @06:52pm:

    But true.

Original content © 2009, John Walkenbach