Thursday, 05 November, 2009

1. By . Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @11:29am:

   Having just gotten out of rehab, I can tell you first hand that cigarettes, Energy drinks and Vicodin are not a real good combination. They talk of pot being a gateway drug; pot has nothing on Vicodin, prescibed or not.
2. By Shel-tone. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @12:23pm:

   So young, so sad.
3. By Gee.... Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @12:23pm:

   It started out interesting then turned into some kind of drama/reality show. All those fiances and all that drama...ick.
4. By Curtis. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @12:33pm:

   What do the older ex-soldiers here think of this photo essay?
5. By Gary. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @01:03pm:

   What do the older ex-soldiers here think of this photo essay? I thought it was good. It just happened to be Ian but it's a story that's repeated thousand of times and, sadly, too many not so happy endings. It also remimded me of how little the Army has changed since my time a lot of years ago. Other than better weapons and gear, pretty much the same.
6. By Onecos. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @01:06pm:

   @ Curtis Interesting. Posted by a 20 year Marine veteran. That's how I earned my healthcare. Obama didn't give it to me.
7. By Inti. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @01:09pm:

   Onecos scores again!
8. By Patricio. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @01:14pm:

   I bet you want the government out of your government healthcare earned as a government employee, Onecos?
9. By Onecos. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @01:58pm:

   @ Patricio, Actually, having spent 3 hours at Tripler AMC this AM to see a doctor, yes.... The government just can't seem to do things efficiently, especially healthcare. I normally use my wife's private health plan as it's more efficient. This time was a routine annual physical. I figured the government could handle a PSA test. But I want all you liberals to know Obama gave me nothing. I earned everything I have. And, I do want the government out of everything I do... Ok... so now you liberals will call me on roads, sewers etc... go for it!!!!
   
   Score another for Onecos!
10. By . Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @02:12pm:

    But I want all you liberals to know Obama gave me nothing. I earned everything I have.

    
    Thanks for the clarification. I was wondering about that.
    
    Come to think of it, I don't think Obama has given me anything either.
    
    BTW, if you want the government out of everything you do, why did you have a government job for 20 years?
11. By Patricio. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @02:26pm:

    Onecos, thanks for serving. You're awesome. You certainly do deserve your health care, you did earn it.I just wish that you and other conservatives didn't have this irrational hatred of all things government. There's nothing wrong with government inherently. There's also nothing inherently wrong with free enterprise. here's nothing wrong with seeking a balance between the two,as either can be corrupted by bad people. It can be done. Before Enron went down in flames, they had a plan, which apparently Bush was in favor of, to bring the Magic Of The Free Market to the municipal water systems of the United States. Enron said that they could free our water from the clutches of Government Inneficiency. In the best case scenario, everyone's water bill would have quadrupled at the very least. Much like what's happening with our privatized health "care" system. Some things are too big and too important for private industry to control for profit. Like health care, and the military.
12. By Onecos. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @02:26pm:

    Good question J-Walk. I often ask myself the same. I was in the foster program for many years and was soon to be rejected into society at age 18. Military was a logical choice. Never planned for 20 years but one thing led to another. I kept extending. Once I hit about 14 years, six more didn't phase me. So, as stated before, I earned everything I have. I have never been given anything by government or family.
    
    BTW, Hawaiian Electric is replacing a termite eaten power pole in front of my house with a fiberglass pole. Interesting.
13. By . Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @02:28pm:

    Going through the photo essay makes the way Onecos thinks more understandable. All thoughts are formed within the framework established by the military many years ago; his own self-identification remains military, period. Indoctrination is one word, brainwashing is another - but his capacity to see outside his box is just nil.
    
    Most who serve in the military manage to stretch the connection to their service enough to enable them to see a wider view over time, to let their history become history, but some just can't break the rhythm they've had hammered into them.
    
    So young, so sad - you said it, Shel-tone.
    
    It infuriates me that military recruiters are allowed into our high schools to hit on our kids. Kids are vulnerable and the recruiters know exactly how to manipulate them. Of course, in this boy's life, his father was the catalyst.
    
    I've asked Onecos before: Have firemen and police earned their health care like you have?
14. By Onecos. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @02:36pm:

    I've asked Onecos before: Have firemen and police earned their health care like you have?
    
    @ Spokane Mary, Absolutely. Anyone who has worked for public/private long enough for healthcare to be a benefit has earned it. I had to do some things I would have rather not done to earn mine. Police and firemen may be able to relate.
15. By Gary. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @02:40pm:

    Onecos, thanks for serving. You're awesome. You certainly do deserve your health care, you did earn it. Why does having a government job for twenty years entitle someone to free lifetime healthcare? Sure seems like a free ride on the backs of hardworking taxpayers.
16. By Curtis. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @02:40pm:

    You crazed Hawaiian Coconut! If you were in the foster care system, you are a product of both a federal and state government system! Not saying growing up that way was great (though, who knows(?), maybe it was), but that is a government system that steps in to help kids whose circumstances require that someone raise them to the age-of-majority (which, BTW, is the same for everyone - 18 - the age at which you are no one's legal obligation but your own).
17. By Patricio. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @02:54pm:

    Gary, talk to a soldier who has been in a war and then you'll know why.
18. By Curtis. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @03:04pm:

    I asked that question in #4 because the essay left me (I didn't read it, just looked at the photos and quickly scanned the words) with a sense that this young soldier was in the military because he was poorly educated and military service was the only appropriate option readily available to him after high school. It doesn't seem right to me that we have a very expensive public education system that leaves many of its graduates in this position - boot camp ready.
19. By Shel-tone. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @03:23pm:

    Holy cow what is going on with the soldiers in Fort Hood?!
20. By Mean Jean. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @03:33pm:

    Alarming story Shel-tone. Now they are saying ONE shooter, as before they were speculating 2 possibly 3. I'm guessing we won't know the total number of dead for a couple of hours.
21. By Mean Jean. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @03:34pm:

    Don't you live near Ft. Hood Shel-tone?
22. By Shel-tone. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @03:39pm:

    I'm in Austin. I think there is a couple of people I work with though that might of had kids at Fort Hood.
    I'm hearing 1 shooter, (who is dead, killed by a police officer who is also dead) and 2 suspects.
    My first guess would be the one shooter acted alone.
23. By Mean Jean. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @03:41pm:

    Shooters name is middle-eastern. Nadal Haman.
24. By Mean Jean. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @03:42pm:

    Sorry, correction...Malik Nadal Hasan.
25. By Shel-tone. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @03:42pm:

    Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson just said it was a soldier that didn't want to be deployed.
26. By Gary. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @04:31pm:

    Uh, Patricio, I did serve in the Army, doesn't change what I understand.
27. By Patricio. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @05:02pm:

    Gary, I personally have no problem with my tax money going to take care of the health of our soldiers.
28. By . Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @05:59pm:

    The big question being this: If all military, police and firemen "earned" their health care, who else is included in that package? Educators? Hospital personnel? Pilots? Long-distance truckers? Snowplow operators? Geneticists and other academics? Library personnel?
    
    Who's going to decide who deserves health care and who doesn't? Onecos?
    
    Curtis hit the nail on the head with that one; Onecos has been taken care of since he was a child by the government he wants out of his life - except for the health care, which he earned by joining the military.
    
    I have no quarrel with members of the military receiving govt-sponsored health care for the rest of their lives; my argument is that they aren't the only ones who should have that available to them and NO ONE has the right to declare who should get it and who shouldn't.
29. By SGT Slaughter. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @09:03pm:

    Who's going to decide who deserves health care and who doesn't?

    
    Who makes that decision now?
30. By wok. Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @10:24pm:

    [i["All thoughts are formed within the framework established by the military many years ago; his own self-identification remains military, period. Indoctrination is one word, brainwashing is another - but his capacity to see outside his box is just nil."
    
    Damn this is just 100% DRIVEL.
    
    CONDESCENDING DRI-VEL.
    
    Also that kid in that story was a douchebag - and he owes all his problems, I'd bet, to his Dad - what 18 year old kid has that many tattoos? A kid whose Dad looks like THAT. I knew douchebags like that guy when I was in the military and anyone with any sense gave them lots of room.
31. By . Comment posted 05-Nov-2009 @11:49pm:

    Talk about CONDESCENDING DRI-VEL: wok decides this kid is a "douchebag" because he has tattoos and his father does, too; yep - that's the way to define a douchebag, alright.
    
    

    All thoughts are formed within the framework established by the military many years ago; his own self-identification remains military, period. Indoctrination is one word, brainwashing is another - but his capacity to see outside his box is just nil.

    
    Same goes for wok - classic example of someone who remains IN the military mentally and emotionally because he can't completely reintegrate into a civilian society. He's far from alone.
    
    Were you in combat, wok? Onecos?
32. By Hip Cat. Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @11:32am:

    A perspective from a descendant of a Marine Coronal who served in WWII. He passed in active duty (in time of peace) and my grandmother received a pension and medical benefits until she was 93. Did she deserved her benefits? Since the Government is responsible for her loss of a husband to support her (he died a couple of years after attending "Special Weapons" AKA Nuclear Weapons training), my teenage mother lost her father and I didn't benefit from a grandfather. As I took care of my grandmother at the end of her life, it was disheartening to see the amount of money the taxpayers were spending to take care of her medical needs. The charges by the medical care providers were outrageous and the Gov. insurance just paid it. Another note: private payer's cost in nursing homes increases every time Medicare raises allowances for Medicare residents! My grandmother was responsible for 100% of her nursing home expenses, which probably equaled the sum of the 40+ yrs. pension.
33. By Hip Cat. Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @11:35am:

    "Colonel"
34. By Curtis. Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @12:48pm:

    Also that kid in that story was a douchebag - and he owes all his problems, I'd bet, to his Dad - what 18 year old kid has that many tattoos? A kid whose Dad looks like THAT. I knew douchebags like that guy when I was in the military and anyone with any sense gave them lots of room.

    
    
    I appreciate that response, wok, because that's the way it looked to me also. Still, what do you think of my point, "this young soldier was in the military because he was poorly educated and military service was the only appropriate option readily available to him after high school?"
    
    I know that well-prepared grads look seriously at the military because they want to serve and have a strong sense of duty. But it also seems that something drives the "douchebag" element straight into the recruiters' arms and it's possibly a lack of education to provide them with a variety of options. What do you think?
35. By Curtis. Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @12:49pm:

    Do we like a certain number of our youth to remain rudderless so they're easier to steer into war work?
36. By wok. Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @01:01pm:

    My reply:
    
    "This young soldier douchebag was in the military working as Fry Cook / Security Guard (which I did for a year) because he was poorly educated (didn't get his own sh*t together and get College going like he could have - again, me) and (being a security guard, then joining the military) were options that he considered, then followed through on, after High School."
    
    What does the military have to do with your question? Other than it's possible that even this goober had a little bit of a patriotic pull in that direction, plus it was a 'dude' thing to do.
37. By wok. Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @01:15pm:

    "Do we like a certain number of our youth to remain rudderless so they're easier to steer into war work?"
    
    WHURH?? 'War Work?' What does something like that even mean? I mean, really? How tacky and boorishly lefty is THAT!
38. By Curtis. Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @01:19pm:

    What does the military have to do with your question?

    
    
    It's a question of government, really, more than military. At one end you put the raw ingredients into the government grinder of public education and at the other end out comes the sausage - military, higher education, or prison. I'm suggesting we (as a government by and for the People) perhaps have less motivation with certain groups of people to help them through education to understand they need to "get their sh*t together" because we want a large portion of military sausage to come out of the public education grinder.
    
    We're spending lots of money on education; are these the outcomes we want?
    
    I'm suggesting that perhaps it is. But, I don't think that's a great way to treat citizens, nor get decent soldiers.
39. By Curtis. Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @01:22pm:

    war work

    
    
    I was being ironic, like how people try to sanitize "whore" with the phrase "sex worker." The military does it all the time by treating military service as a "career."
40. By Curtis. Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @01:24pm:

    How tacky and boorishly lefty is THAT!

    
    
    It's not. It was a phrase that didn't make its point very well with you.
41. By wok. Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @01:32pm:

    I don't know if you've heard - but it's not easy to get into the military. They've been meeting their recruitment goals for a while now. Maybe they've gotten better at recruiting - and good for them - but maybe more folks are just wanting to join the military.
    
    That said - in lots of places, you can't get into the military without a high testing score, or without settling for a career field you didn't want. The military is getting better quality folks than they ever have - ten-twelve years ago, I very often found myself passed over for things because I only had some college. Enlisted folks are getting degrees and advancing themselves during and after their time in serviec, now more than ever.
    
    My bigger point, though, would be that it seems pretty obvious that you're overlooking regular entry-level or lower-paying jobs. military, higher education, or prison - that's not anyone's list of most likely choices. The large majority of kids go into other, regular jobs.
42. By Mean Jean. Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @01:39pm:

    The army runs a prep school at Fort Jackson, S.C. for enlistees who need a GED., then they are off to basic training.
43. By wok. Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @01:43pm:

    We also have programs for Spanish-speaking new recruits!
44. By Curtis. Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @01:54pm:

    in lots of places, you can't get into the military without a high testing score, or without settling for a career field you didn't want.

    
    
    In lots of places you can.
    
    

    it seems pretty obvious that you're overlooking regular entry-level or lower-paying jobs

    
    
    Point taken. So there's four types of sausage - only one doesn't include lips and snouts.
45. By wok. Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @01:58pm:

    I'm suggesting we (as a government by and for the People) perhaps have less motivation with certain groups of people to help them through education to understand they need to "get their sh*t together" because we want a large portion of military sausage to come out of the public education grinder.
    
    I can understand the point of view that you're describing. But I think it alludes to a conspiracy, one, and implies that joining the military isn't a great choice for these 'certain groups' you're talking about, two. Why would it be a 'bad choice' is what I'm wondering.
    
    Plus, folks that join the military - and I've said this before in other conversations - are adults, making adult decisions. Douchebag adults, included.
46. By Curtis. Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @02:58pm:

    Why would it be a 'bad choice' is what I'm wondering.

    
    
    Well there's the whole "dead or maimed" aspect that makes it a bad choice for an individual.
    
    

    it alludes to a conspiracy

    
    
    It could in the broadest sense, but it could also just be an important institutional benefit that perpetuates itself because it works out best that way for the government.
    
    And I agree adults are free to make adult decisions, but if you're making education compulsory in a country and taxing for it at every level of government, I think you best turn out some young people VERY prepared to make adult decisions.
47. By wok. Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @03:50pm:

    On this we surely agree - let's get education fixed up in this country.
    
    We may part ways, though, when I say that to do that you'll need to bust up the major Teacher's Unions, before they 'Michigan' us more than they already have. Also I think we should eliminate tenure benefits for non-supervisory, pre-University educators.
48. By Curtis. Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @04:45pm:

    We may part ways, though, when I say that to do that you'll need to bust up the major Teacher's Unions... Also I think we should eliminate tenure benefits for non-supervisory, pre-University educators.
    

    
    
    We do not part ways on these points; we completely agree. I also think Obama is closer to this position than any other liberal Presidential candidate since teachers' unions came into existence; it was my primary reason for abandoning Clinton and supporting Obama in February, '08.
49. By Curtis. Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @04:54pm:

    Here's Obama's Secretary of Education, Arne Duncan, in July of this year:
    
    

    I came here today to challenge you to think differently about the role of unions in public education because, when thousands of schools are chronically failing and millions of children are dropping out each year, we all must think differently.
    
    It's not enough to focus only on issues like job security, tenure, compensation, and evaluation. You must become full partners and leaders in education reform. You and I must be willing to change.

    
    
    No other Presidents on either side would dare have a person in that position say that in an address to the NEA. McCain might have, but he wouldn't be serious about the concomitant
    reform.
50. By wok. Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @05:06pm:

    Huh!
    
    Pretty nice
    
    
    
    
    Words.
51. By Curtis. Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @05:28pm:

    It starts with words. Arne Duncan is an action guy. Education reform is a second term type of move, but this administration started its groundwork immediately - then they used the economic stimulus to help strapped districts keep more union employees drawing paychecks -- two birds with one stone, I'd say, keep the system you mean to shake up beholden to you during crisis times. Time will tell, but these guys are possibly playing this one well.
52. By wok. Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @08:19pm:

    Good luck with that 'second term.'
53. By Curtis. Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @10:57pm:

    I agree it's not looking good for second term plans, but I do not see a good Republican option for 2012. My state's Governor? Not bloody likely. Care to make a prediction?
54. By wok. Comment posted 06-Nov-2009 @10:59pm:

    I'm sure my past prescience and so on has you interested. Not just yet, though.
55. By . Comment posted 07-Nov-2009 @02:37am:

    Seriously impressive study of the usual 12-year old soldiers that get sent off to fight wars from your country

Original content © 2009, John Walkenbach