Thursday, 02 July, 2009

1. By . Comment posted 02-Jul-2009 @07:51pm:

   I notice that she avoided mentioning whether Xenu used the three-finger or clawhammer method of banjo playing. She's obviously hiding something.
2. By Curtis. Comment posted 02-Jul-2009 @07:55pm:

   Pretty cranky.
   
   My encounters in LA with some Scientologists (who never once tried to push anything on me or sneak any "information" my way) have been extremely positive.
   
   My wife achieved the completely natural and drug-free birth process she wanted through the training and help of the Gentle Birth Center.
   
   My kid with autism was completely accepted and benefited from the high expectations of Creative Space camp for four summers.
   
   For several years my son also got classical art instruction from Mission Renaissance - which gave him a very firm foundation in important techniques in art. Again he was completely accepted and was instructed based on high expectations.
   
   All three of these businesses were founded and run by people who practiced Scientology. They provided excellent (and hard-to-find anything of comparable quality) services.
   
   I also saw a few small club appearances by Beck who tore it up.
3. By Shel-tone. Comment posted 02-Jul-2009 @08:07pm:

   ...but she makes banjos. You like banjos don't you J-Walk?
   She can't be all bad. Baaaaaannnnnjooooos...
   
   nuh-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh
   nuh-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh nuh-nuh
   Leader!
4. By Don Coyote. Comment posted 02-Jul-2009 @08:38pm:

   Don't know about the Scientology connection but she is kind of cute while looking happy to a fault. I'd like to know as little about Scientology as is humanly possible. I used to own a Deering banjo, however. No wonder I parted with it so easily. I don't watch movies with famous Scientologists in them either.
5. By . Comment posted 02-Jul-2009 @08:53pm:

   Curtis, I'm not saying that Scientologists aren't capable of running a business. Obviously, they are. But there are also many other people who can run a business who aren't associated with L. Ron Hubbard and Xenu the alien.
   
   It's the cult that I'm ranting on. Especially those "free personality test" centers. Give a guy a stupid test, tell the person he's deficient, and collect some money to fix him. Next thing you know, he's buying an e-meter and paying more money to be Clear. It's a scam, and (and as far I can tell) that's how they make their money.
   
   Most people don't think highly of Scientology, and my point here is to make it known that a leading banjo company is run by Scientologists. People can make their own buying decisions. I made mine.
   
   Did you read the articles here?
   http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project/
6. By Curtis. Comment posted 02-Jul-2009 @09:37pm:

   J-Walk, I know plenty about Scientology and I find their precepts creepy. My wife had lawsuits against the Church of Scientology, so I also know first hand about their scorched earth legal tactics.
   
   Nonetheless, I am relating some experiences I had with individuals, like the Deering lady, that were incredibly positive. Two of them had to do with a certain generosity towards my son that is rare and the other had to do with his actual birth - a birth that left my wife strong and extremely ready for the challenges our infant son presented.
   
   All three experiences had a lot to do with aspects of Scientology that these individuals put to good practice - in two, they didn't think of my son as autistic and so openly welcomed and challenged him. They gave him a rare gift of normal experience.
7. By Curtis. Comment posted 02-Jul-2009 @09:42pm:

   Obviously, the same aspect of Scientology that helped my son - adherents' anti-psychiatry stance - has also severely harmed other people (Jett Travolta comes to mind).
   
   I don't find that particularly shocking - most human social constructs have the capacity for both good and ill.
   
   Blasting a woman for her religion as you did above seems pretty unwarranted. Expecting her to answer for all the weird or bad stuff done in the name of Scientology or describing her as a cult member is a bit unusual.
8. By Curtis. Comment posted 02-Jul-2009 @09:48pm:

   I don't watch movies with famous Scientologists in them either.

   
   
   And that's either a lie or just plain stupid.
   
   You never watched Pulp Fiction or Get Shorty?
   
   Would you read a poem by a cold-blooded killer?
9. By rob. Comment posted 02-Jul-2009 @09:48pm:

   All three experiences had a lot to do with aspects of Scientology

   
   Curtis, would you mind explaining what aspects of Scientology were helpful and how they are specific to Scientology?
10. By rob. Comment posted 02-Jul-2009 @11:25pm:

    the same aspect of Scientology that helped my son - adherents' anti-psychiatry stance - has also severely harmed other people (Jett Travolta comes to mind).

    
    Scientology is anti-science. Odd. I figure you know what's best for your son -- you knew what he needed and you found it for him.
    
    Refusing to acknowledge autism is generally bad. Maybe you manipulated their willful ignorance to your advantage, but it's still bad practice.
11. By NJSteve. Comment posted 02-Jul-2009 @11:59pm:

    J-Walk,
    
    I got to disagree with you on this one. As long as her religion isn't mentioned to you as a customer, I don't see it being a reason not to purchase a product from someone. You should make a purchase based on where it is made and the product's quality and not the race, religion, etc of the person making it.
    
    I'm sure many items you purchase are by makers with religions you don't support, like catholic, but you just have no idea about it. However, I can see you using as a purchasing criteria, but highlighting it on your blog is IMHO a bit much.
12. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @12:30am:

    NJ Steve,
    
    I think J-Walk's beef with Janet's banjos is not so much the fact that she is a Scientologist but that she sends out Scientology propaganda with banjo orders (J-Walk, correct me if I am wrong). I agree that she crossed the line there. I despise Scientology and I think that they are a very dangerous cult that should be outlawed (and I live in Clearwater too, damn!). But I love Pulp Fiction, I also like Tom Cruise's movie Minority Report (sorry) and I will not refuse to watch a movie just because a Scientologist is in it (hat tip to Curtis). I just hate when a person shows their religion in my face. Whatever fairy tales an individual believes is their problem, as long as separation of church and state and also church and business is still there.
    
    By the way, I do boycott Chick-fil-A and do not eat their crappy food because of this.
13. By boswell. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @12:55am:

    NJSteve:
    

    I'm sure many items you purchase are by makers with religions you don't support

    
    
    I think you're missing the point. Scientology is not a religion but an elaborate scam to defraud gullible people into handing over large sums of money to reach OT111 level where bizarre tales that milions of years ago Xenu, ruler of the galactic confederacy, captured billions of his dissident citizens, paralyzed them with antifreeze, transported them to Earth, dropped them at the base of volcanoes and blowed them up real good using nuclear weapons
14. By Charles Montgomery. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @04:02am:

    boswell
    
    misses the point..
    
    All religions are elaborate scams to defraud.
    
    Heck, I appreciate the complicated plot Scientology gives.. it equals that weird one where God kills his only son some 4000 years after he creates the earth.
    
    and dooms the ones who died before his son because... uh....
    maybe.. he wasn't ready to kill his son yet?
15. By Don Coyote. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @05:13am:

    "And that's either a lie or just plain stupid."
    
    Watch the toes, big fella. I have certainly watched movies with famous Scientologist actors in the past. For several years now, however, I've had an unofficial boycott of the same with Mel Gibson--as a lunatic Catholic--thrown in for good measure. I don't give a flying...duck what certain Scientologist (or lunatic Catholic) actors are doing these days. Life's too brief and I don't have to look beyond our garden for entertainment.
    
    "Would you read a poem by a cold-blooded killer?" Probably not. What passes for poetry these days can pass right by me. Coming and going if said poet was a 'cold-blooded killer.' But then I don't suffer from your compulsion to be Uber Hip. Just Authentic.
16. By Randy. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @05:51am:

    J-Walk, I am as much of an atheist as the next godless heathen, but when you say you would like Christianity abolished, are you speaking of doing it by statute or by its falling under its own weight and people beginning to use rational thinking? As much as I believe it is, and has been, a force for evil in the world, I also believe in the individual's right to believe whatever absurd thing they choose. That is until they begin to try to push it on the rest of us by the power of the civil government.
17. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @06:58am:

    Curtis.... your personal positive experience with Scientology is admirable. I am glad you and your family were able to benefit from the services offered. It is sad that you were unable to find birthing services and acceptance for your son outside this kooky religion.
18. By Mike Schroeder. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @08:24am:

    I think it's pretty silly that you're so against L. Ron Hubbard, the man.
    
    Even though he's a nut job and all the belief within the Scientology "religion" or movement or whatever that batshit insanity is, you got to hand it to L. Ron, he had a good hustle.
    
    You should not necessarily think he actually believed the drivel he spouted. If you read the fiction series he wrote (the Mission Earth saga), you can find quite a talented author.
    
    He, like many other science fiction writers of his era, was a huckster, and perhaps the damned-finest. Here we are arguing over his "religion" 13 years after he's dead, and it's one of the most profitable organizations ever to exist.
    
    Don't hate the man who separates the fool from his money, you should really only be upset at the fool.
19. By Doug. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @08:40am:

    Scientology is no weirder than other religions.
    Do you refuse to shop at sites and stores owned by Christians?
20. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @08:43am:

    Don't hate the man who separates the fool from his money, you should really only be upset at the fool.

    
    So the world's con men are the good guys and the naive people are the fools?
21. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @08:45am:

    Scientology is no weirder than other religions.

    
    
    Yes it is. Did you read the articles here?
    http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project/
22. By wally the duck. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @09:09am:

    I never wanted to use the number '0' because it was invented by Muslims... but it turns out it wasn't, so now I do use it.
23. By Curtis. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @09:23am:

    birthing services and acceptance for your son outside this kooky religion.

    
    
    Nobody I worked with promoted themselves as Scientologists. I was not "inside" a kooky religion anymore than I am when I take my lamp to get repaired by a guy who is a Catholic.
    
    I'm just saying people who are Scientologists can also be rather conventional and productive members of society. J-Walk paints them as irredeemable cult members. Compare and contrast.
24. By wok. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @09:29am:

    1) Which religion is Horshack? He always seemed so earnest.
    
    2) Battlefield Earth must have really been bad for John to still be upset
25. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @09:49am:

    Scientology is no weirder than other religions.
    
    I've always found it amusing how easy it is for people to see how weird OTHER peoples religion are and be completely oblivious to the weirdness of their own. Mormons are a good example. Personally I don't consider L Ron's outfit a religion. And SERIOUSLY,,,,anyone who has read up on L Ron and the lurid details of the Scientology "Faith" and somehow walks away saying "Makes sense to me" gets what they deserve. Caveat emptor
26. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @10:10am:

    J-Walk paints them as irredeemable cult members. Compare and contrast.

    
    Once again, all I'm saying is that if I buy a Deering banjo, some percentage of that price will end up in the coffers of Scientology. Janet's only an OT IV, and she has a long way to go (and it will cost a lot of money).
    
    I will admit, though, they have some fascinating study materials:
    
    The head of the Galactic Confederation (76 planets around larger stars visible from here)(founded 95,000,000 yrs ago, very space opera)solved overpopulation (250 billion or so per planet -- 178 billion on average) by mass implanting. He caused people to be brought to Teegeeack (Earth) and put an H Bomb on the principal volcanoes (Incident 2) and then the Pacific area ones were taken in boxes to Hawaii and the Atlantic Area ones to Las Palmas and there "packaged."
    His name was Xenu.
27. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @10:26am:

    The dude wrote bad sci-fi for a living,,,can 'ya tell?:)
28. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @10:48am:

    Do you refuse to shop at sites and stores owned by Christians?
    
    I do, if they insist I take a pamphlet on the way into the store.
29. By Keithuk. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @11:44am:

    Do you refuse to shop at sites and stores owned by Christians?

    
    
    I would if they felt the need to let me know they were a Christian (or a Muslim or Scientologist, or any other deluded whackjob). I don't care about their ridiculous drivel and I find it objectionable to be expected to tolerate it.
30. By Mike Schroeder. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @12:05pm:

    Do you refuse to shop at sites and stores owned by Christians?
    
    Usually - there's a Circle K on Broadway and Kolb that I avoid because they always have K-LOVE Radio playing some "Oh Jesus Save My Soul" song playing and there're at least 12 signs about praising God all over the place.
31. By Phil. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @12:11pm:

    I've always found it amusing how easy it is for people to see how weird OTHER peoples religion are...

    
    
    “For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
    For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.”
    - Stuart Chase
32. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @12:21pm:

    Here's the ghost of L. Ron Hubbard, posing with a new Deering Xenu Goodtime.
    
    
33. By lobstah. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @12:26pm:

    Now THAT'S a punchable face !
34. By Mike Schroeder. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @12:32pm:

    C'mon how can you not love that smug mug over such a handsome cravat?
35. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @12:41pm:

    Nonetheless, I am relating some experiences I had with individuals, like the Deering lady, that were incredibly positive. Two of them had to do with a certain generosity towards my son that is rare and the other had to do with his actual birth - a birth that left my wife strong and extremely ready for the challenges our infant son presented.

    
    
    Curtis.... obviously your experience has colored your view. Others may have different views. What I was saying is that there are wonderful teachers and professionals outside this religion that could have given you positive experiences for your wife and your son.
36. By Curtis. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @12:55pm:

    The lady is a banjo maker. She is used to dealing with cranky old coots.
    
    And I don't care where you buy your banjos, J-Walk, I just think you're un-holier than thou attitude is assious.
    
    People think if you don't see the horror that is Scientology, it's because you haven't read enough or are uninformed. I've read the stuff, I know the same things you know, J-Walk, and I would never scorn a Scientologist who happens to mistakenly contact me on a business matter such as this.
    
    Too me there's no difference between you and any other righteously indignant proselytizer, except that like you, I also happen to be an atheist.
37. By Mike Schroeder. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @12:59pm:

    BURN!
38. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @01:01pm:

    I would never scorn a Scientologist who happens to mistakenly contact me on a business matter such as this.

    
    Huh? Re-read the email exchange, bunky. She's the one who started it. She could have ended it, but she chose to reply, "I see. What have you heard about it?"
    
    And she also agreed to let me publish her comments. As an avowed anti-Scientologist, how could I resist not posting this?
39. By Doug. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @01:03pm:

    I'd rather give my banjo money to makers who aren't members of an absurd cult.

    I thought banjo players were members of an absurd cult. :)
40. By Curtis. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @01:06pm:

    What I was saying is that there are wonderful teachers and professionals outside this religion that could have given you positive experiences for your wife and your son.

    
    
    Of course there are, meg-mac. I'm talking about what I have experienced in dealing with some believers in Scientology. I didn't seek them out to perform these services and I didn't know any of them were Scientologists until some time after I had done business with them.
    
    In the case of Mission Renaissance - you could not find any other art school in LA County that teaches classical method to children so successfully. I challenge you to find one.
41. By Curtis. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @01:08pm:

    obviously your experience has colored your view. Others may have different views.

    
    
    The only experiences I've seen described here are from reading stuff on the internet, as opposed to mine and J-Walk's, which actually had to do with dealing directly with human beings. And even in that department, my contact was much more direct and long term.
    
    I expect to take heat for saying something positive about any Scientologist on the interweb. Next to fat celebrities, they are the favorite punching bag online.
    
    Poor Kirsti Alley, double-damned.
42. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @01:11pm:

    Funny how no one comes back to the part that I think is the most significant here: The pamphlet that came with the banjo was a Scientology pamphlet, but it didn't say so. That's the part about Scientology that turns it from a religion into a cult, in my opinion: People are drawn into it without having any idea what they're getting into. That's dishonest and morally reprehensible. When they give out these little tracts about how to find happiness and peace and such, they're playing to the vulnerabilities of people who are feeling a need for meaning in their life - okay, that's understandable from a religious standpoint - but when the message doesn't openly admit what "church" it's connected to, that's where the "reprehensible" comes in.
    
    John, your point is well taken, but your rant is a bit overzealous (gross understatement here).
43. By Curtis. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @01:14pm:

    She's the one who started it.
    

    
    
    Really? I'd say you did. You could have chosen to end it simply by saying you were not the guy who made the comment she was contacting you about.
    
    
    

    Me: It wasn't my comment. I wouldn't own a Deering banjo.
    
    Janet: Why not?
    
    Me: I'm very much anti-Scientology.

44. By Mike Schroeder. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @01:16pm:

    J-walk look down.
    
    
    GOOGLE ADLINKS below this thread.
    ---------------
    L. Ron Hubbard
    Learn About Dianetics. Free Online Videos on Personal Experiences.
    
    Scientology Video Channel
    You’ve heard the controversy. Now Get The Facts. Watch Online Videos!
45. By Curtis. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @01:16pm:

    People are drawn into it without having any idea what they're getting into. That's dishonest and morally reprehensible. When they give out these little tracts about how to find happiness and peace and such, they're playing to the vulnerabilities of people who are feeling a need for meaning in their life

    
    
    Caveat emptor.
46. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @01:23pm:

    Curtis... just curious.... what procedures or services did you and your wife persue for birthing?
47. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @01:23pm:

    Everyone should click those Scientology ad links. They probably pay pretty well.
48. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @01:24pm:

    Ah, yes - the cop-out answer to everything.
    
    No one has any responsibility to be honest in their business dealings - if you get screwed, it's your own fault.
49. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @02:41pm:

    uh..the difference between a cult and a religion is the number of believers.
50. By Curtis. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @03:11pm:

    Ah, yes - the cop-out answer to everything.
    

    
    
    Tell you what, Mary, I nominate you for JWB official Protector of Innocent Adult Victims of Trickery Watchdog. If people get screwed by a willingness to believe in weird stuff, whose fault is it? Unless it's a con that that has a perpetrator who can be prosecuted, it's their own fault.
    
    An insipid tract in a banjo? Definitely going to harm many innocent people caught unawares by The Cult.
51. By Curtis. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @03:20pm:

    what procedures or services did you and your wife persue for birthing?

    
    
    Just a completely drug-free natural birth. The Scientologists have been doing it for a long time in Southern California - we started in twice-a-week classes as soon as my wife got pregnant, our midwife helped us write an excellent birth plan so we were able to be left alone in the hospital with our midwife until the doctor who had signed off on our plan came in as the baby began to crown, performed birthing massage, avoided an episiotomy and helped my wife deliver an 9 1/2 pound boy.
    
    Sure there are many providers of this type of service, but these guys were really superior.
52. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @03:26pm:

    Curtis.... You don't think some members of the population could be taken advantage of by their

    willingness to believe in weird stuff

    ? And be innocent in their belief?
53. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @03:30pm:

    For you, Curtis:
    
    http://tinyurl.com/ns5fad
54. By Curtis. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @04:24pm:

    See J-Walk, nothing I have said suggests I would ever be a devotee of Scientioloy, but merely defending this woman by telling of my positive experiences with a few Scientologists suggests to you I am a fellow traveler.
    
    How would this feel to you:
    
    

    Me: It wasn't my comment. I wouldn't own a Deering banjo.
    
    Janet: Why not?
    
    Me: I'm very much anti-Judism.

    
    
    ?
    
    Or is Scientology logically worse than more standard religions?
55. By Curtis. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @04:28pm:

    Like are the things you've quoted as sources for your ire worse or equal to, say, continued West Bank settlements? Certainly such forms of Zionism have Judaism as their basis.
56. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @04:29pm:

    Yes, I'd say Scientology is logically worse than more standard religions.
    
    People are usually born into standard religions, and usually don't know any better. Scientologists join up, even after knowing how absurd it is. And it is DEFINITELY absurd. That leads me to question the judgment of these whackos.
57. By Curtis. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @05:17pm:

    People are usually born into standard religions, and usually don't know any better.

    
    
    In LA there are lots and lots of people "born into" Scientology. As a matter of fact, two of the three examples I gave in comment #2 were second generation Scientologists, as is Beck.
58. By Curtis. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @05:19pm:

    No, I think Beck may be third generation, come to think of it.
59. By Bisbonian. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @05:34pm:

    An insipid tract in a banjo?

    
    I think it was probably this one.
60. By Don Coyote. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @05:35pm:

    "Me: I'm very much anti-Judism."
    
    Except, of course, for Hey, Judism.
61. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @05:40pm:

    Here's the actual booklet: (in PDF format).
    
    Complete drivel. A moron would read it and say, "WOW, this is great! Tell me more." And, $5,000 later, they're the proud owner of an e-meter and well on their way to spending a whole lot more as their indoctrination progresses.
62. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @05:54pm:

    A moron would read it and say, "WOW, this is great! Tell me more

    
    
    Or a developmentally delayed adult. Or an adult Downs Syndrome patient living in assisted living? Or a person with autism.
63. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @07:08pm:

    From a Deering banjo review at Banjo Hangout:
    
    

    Now, this could turn out to be disappointing, but I suppose only time will tell. Upon completing the one-year warranty card, I spied a check box stating "Please Send my FREE Way to Happiness Booklet". I'd assumed this would be a bit of inoffensive religious literature, but I Googled just to be sure. As it turns out, this is a bit of Scientologist literature. I can only assume that, in order to obtain a warranty and the promised Owner's Manual, I'll have to suffer an onslaught of Scientology pamphlets as they attempt to convert my mailbox from its heathen ways. Again, only time will tell, and I would have bought the banjo anyhow, but I wish they hadn't been all sneaky about it.

    
    So I guess she's not lying when she says that they only send the Scientology propaganda upon request. But it wasn't always like that.
64. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @07:12pm:

    I've read a lot more about Scientology on the Banjo Hangout, but the posts tend to get deleted. Deering is a major advertiser.
65. By Curtis. Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @07:42pm:

    It's a banjo conspiracy.
    
    

    I can only assume that, in order to obtain a warranty and the promised Owner's Manual, I'll have to suffer an onslaught of Scientology pamphlets as they attempt to convert my mailbox from its heathen ways.

    
    
    Why does he assume that. I don't get it.
    
    

    Or a developmentally delayed adult. Or an adult Downs Syndrome patient living in assisted living? Or a person with autism.

    
    
    Those are vulnerable adults, meg-mac. Are you suggesting that no sneaky religion pitches should be allowed because their are a small number of vulnerable adults who need to be protected?
    
    It's a disability rights issue? That's not only a cheap shot, but a stupid argument. You should read "Welcome to the Monkeyhouse."
66. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @07:51pm:

    If people get screwed by a willingness to believe in weird stuff, whose fault is it? Unless it's a con that that has a perpetrator who can be prosecuted, it's their own fault.

    
    
    Curtis.... I disagree with you. I think there are some people who innocently would not understand a scam when put upon them. So in the sense that they have a diminished capacity to understand what a scam even is your comment seemed cold and unfeeling.
67. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @07:55pm:

    Why does he assume that. I don't get it.

    
    It doesn't matter why. He's a Deering customer who knows about Scientology, and he doesn't trust Scientologists because 90% of what you read about them is (rightfully) negative. To me, that makes sense, and I get it. Apparently, Deering doesn't. Somehow, they think there's something to be gained by advertising the fact that they are Scientologists.
    
    One more time: If it weren't for their Scientology connection, Deering banjos would be OK in my book. But because they choose to flaunt their absurd beliefs by offering to send pamphlets designed for naive morons, I don't like the company at all. I'm probably in a minority, but I'm not the only one. And besides, their banjos are way overpriced.
68. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @08:03pm:

    I can only assume that, in order to obtain a warranty and the promised Owner's Manual, I'll have to suffer an onslaught of Scientology pamphlets as they attempt to convert my mailbox from its heathen ways.
    

    
    I don't get that one, either. All he has to do is ignore the box that asks for the Happiness pamphlet. Sounds to me like he just wants something to Eeyore about: "Well, I suppose if I don't check the box, I'll never get my warranty, let alone my Owner's Manual; that's the way it always goes for me ..."
    
    Sorry - that one doesn't hold water.
    
    Curtis, we can play the same game here and turn the story around this way: Everyone should have enough sense not to buy into anything that's not on the up-and-up, right? Developmentally disabled people are excused, though, and autistic people, and some others, because they're "vulnerable."
    
    How do you feel about Madoff and his scams/schemes? Caveat emptor there also?
69. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @08:06pm:

    Curtis, you claim that Scientology is like any other religion and we just do not like them because they are new and they involve spaceships. I disagree. Scientology is much more dangerous than any other religion practiced in this country. Their doctrine is to infiltrate the government so the laws are changed in their favor (Operation Snow White), to destroy their opponents reputation and ruin them financially (Fair Game doctrine), to intimidate and harass people who disagree with them. When was the last time you heard about JWs ruining someone's life because you refused to open the door? It is not just bad apples within the ranks, Fair Game is an official church policy that they defended in court! I know there are good and honest individuals involved in Scientology but that does not change the fact that the entire cult is dangerous & needs to be disbanded.
70. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @08:30pm:

    Oh, sorry - Madoff can be prosecuted - that makes the situation different somehow.
    
    I think the word "vulnerable" should include anyone whose own life experience has not yet involved learning about Scientology and cults and such - and those people are as likely to be victimized by Scientology as the more wealthy are to be victimized by Madoff. Just my opinion.
    
    It's nice that you had such a positive experience for the birth of your son. I honestly think that most of us have had amazingly wonderful birth experiences of our own, many with midwives, many drug free - births of all kinds, but each amazing and wonderful just because of the child. Again, my own opinion.
    
    
    

    And besides, their banjos are way overpriced.
    

    
    
    If Deering banjos were incredibly low priced and instruments of outstanding quality, would you buy one, or would you still refuse because they're built by Scientologists?
71. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @08:38pm:

    I know there are good and honest individuals involved in (Any religion you care to name) Scientology but that does not change the fact that the entire cult is dangerous & needs to be disbanded.
    
    Just so we aren't just picking on them alone. An individuals heartfelt and sincere belief in a higher benevolent force can be a beautiful and inspiring thing,,,,,,,then some ahole comes along and figures out a way to either make money or further his political agenda from it and the whole thing goes to hell in a hand basket.
72. By . Comment posted 03-Jul-2009 @09:01pm:

    If Deering banjos were incredibly low priced and instruments of outstanding quality, would you buy one, or would you still refuse because they're built by Scientologists?

    
    I'd still refuse. But that's a terrible question because I can't even conceive of a low priced instrument of outstanding quality. The best musical instruments are made by individual people, not factories.
73. By Curtis. Comment posted 04-Jul-2009 @09:55am:

    Curtis, you claim that Scientology is like any other religion and we just do not like them because they are new and they involve spaceships.

    
    
    
    Szyszek -- where exactly do I claim that? Can't put your finger on it? Didn't think so.
74. By Don Coyote. Comment posted 04-Jul-2009 @10:28am:

    Thought of you around midnight last night, Curtis, while reading New Yorker in bed. There was a review of a current movie with a famous Scientologist in it and I just skipped right over it, even if it meant turn out the light time. It's like a mental allergy.
75. By Stratoblogster. Comment posted 04-Jul-2009 @02:39pm:

    As far as banjos are concerned, Deering's focus & effort should be on making the very best banjo. Maybe if they did that, the religion issue wouldn't be such a target. Sure, John doesn't dig Scientology, and would still have a dilemma about Deering. But if Deering clearly produced the finest banjos, it would be an admirable thing regardless of religion. It might even reflect well upon the religion. But religion is a choice.
    
    This is John's blog and he can say anything he wants. Likewise, Deering is responsible for the quality of their banjos.
76. By Curtis. Comment posted 04-Jul-2009 @05:52pm:

    This is John's blog and he can say anything he wants.

    
    
    Where'd you get that lame brained idea?
77. By Stratoblogster. Comment posted 04-Jul-2009 @06:45pm:

    From John.
78. By . Comment posted 04-Jul-2009 @11:37pm:

    Curtis
    

    Or is Scientology logically worse than more standard religions?

    
    This is where I got it from. Was I wrong?
79. By Curtis. Comment posted 05-Jul-2009 @03:46pm:

    Was I wrong?

    
    
    Apparently, Szyszek. I'm asking if it's worse than other religions; not saying it's like any other religion. And where do I suggest we don't like it because it's "new" and involves "spaceships?"

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